Id always wanted to be a pilot and didnt know anything else, so I said the Doolie equivalent of Shut up and take my money! (There was a lot more Sir and Maam involved.) The policy also applies to Army Reserve and National Guard components, but their obligated service will remain part-time, he said. The AvB is used to offer bonuses to aviators with critical skills or MOSs. In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and getting kicked to the curb as a furlough. Cookie Notice In regards to our flight school length, the AF and Navy actually won't recognize our flight school as a valid flight school for earning wings if we try to branch transfer as part of it which I do find amusing. (Read. Yes, life there is fantastic, and its important to get there as quickly as you can because Seniority is Everything. That's the Army's ace in the hole. However, after spending a few more minutes thinking about how these career paths might compare, I decided Stans idea might not be as advantageous after all. Fiscal Yr 2021 starts Oct 1, 2020. This ADSO will likely cause a sharp decline in recruiting among cadets selecting their branches and enlisted soldiers and civilians interested in becoming Army pilots. However, Army aviation should not be compared with the other military branchesnot least because of the widely varying costs of producing pilots. Paste as plain text instead, Im would bank on that being the flight school start date officially. So now the prior Enlisted must do at least 11.5 years and advance to the grade of W3. The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. Army Career Satisfaction Program If youre worried about frequent moves disrupting your family life, picking a community with few basing locations is a viable option for Active Duty. ROTC Scholars have a 4-year commissioning ADSO. Display as a link instead, Special and Incentive Pay Index - U.S. Department of Defense Is a 10-year Active Duty ADSC so terrible that its worth passing up? You can review the rules in AR 600-3 if memory serves. Additionally, Cadets awarded Aviation Branch cannot participate in the Post of Choice program due to the inability to project requirements beyond flight school. I wouldnt put it past B Co to drop incorrect information and later say we didnt say that.. The service obligation begins on the date an officer attains an aeronautical rating of Army aviator or is removed from attendance, whichever is earlier.. If you havent already read Part, Part 1: Air Force Reserve Officers Training Corps (AFROTC) Table of Contents What is AFROTC? Flying helicopters looks pretty dope though. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? Soldiers pilot a CH-47 Chinook helicopter during a training flight over the city of Erbil in the Kurdistan Region of Iraq, May 23, 2020. Branching Aviation New Commitment | Page 2 | United States of America Before people get started on the, this is the way the Army goes and all that, I know. I'm roaring and ready to go. Comments will be moderated before posting to ensure logical, professional, and courteous application to article content. and our I'm in better shape today than I was 10 years ago. They might be stuck on Active Duty slightly longer than Stan, but hed have to spend at least a couple of years at a regional airline to even start competing for major airline jobs. I crushed the SIFT, passed my flight physical, have a great OML standing, etc., so I should have a good chance of getting my top pick. Also if you have any time in the army at all, youll probably stay until 20 at that point. The army has never been good at personnel management. I know there are exceptions to the rule, and I know some people haze junior warrant officers. PDF Aviation Service of Rated Army Officers - United States Army The best pilots I have served with were prior NCOs. Traditionally, the Army has not struggled to recruit pilots. The earlier you can, INTERVIEW PREP PACKAGE (eCourse + 1-on-1's), 1 HOUR INTERVIEW PREP ADD-ON (Add'l 1-on-1 Coaching for eCourse & Package Customers), 1 HOUR APP REVIEW ADD-ON (Add'l 1-on-1 Coaching for eCourse & Package Customers), https://www.dvidshub.net/image/3982524/f-35-sky, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4798866/f-22-europe, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/5765915/b-2-and-boom, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/491088/deployed-civil-engineers, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop, The Ultimate Guide to Earning a Pilot Slot in Air Force ROTC, Part 1, As Stan would be finishing up his 5-year ADSC, hed need to be shopping for Guard and Reserve UPT board announcements on. This plan assumes that Stan can get hired by a Guard or Reserve unit at this point. The DoD report to Congress included a description of Air Force efforts to assess the problem: The Air Force gathered data on what drives separations from an October 2015 Fighter Pilot Retention Air Force Smart Operations for the 21st century event, the 2015 Air Force Exit and Retention surveys, the August 2017 Dedicated Aircrew Retention Teaming Summit, and a series of three aircrew retention crowdsourcing surveys sent to 9,000 aircrew members that culminated in March 2018. Such changes may affect my status, I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a military pilot. What I would like to add is almost the opposite of some of these comments. 10 year ADSO is official 78 212 212 comments Best Add a Comment awestm11 3 yr. ago "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. It does have the potential to get him to the airlines more quickly, and hed do all of his military flying in the Guard or Reserve (with Quality of Life far superior to Active Duty, in most cases). For the Army, the costs are much cheaper. We want as many applications as we can, so if anybody has any questions, be sure to contact that warrant officer recruiting team, Kearns said. Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. Stans Active Duty pilot peers would have spent 8-11 years since graduating from college flying for the military full time. I am planning on staying in anyway but that 10 year also looms big if everything sucks and you hate it. Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. Yes, most of us eventually plan to move on to the airlines. More career Enlisted apply than street to seat on a yearly basis. They can surely find that amount in the Enlisted ranks if WARRANTED. There's definitely a balance issue, and I suppose the grass is always greener on the other side. However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty. Wonder if you can get out early if NOT making CW3 or must you hang around. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to earn a 20-year military retirement.. Once he identified some units in which hes interested in, hed need to start. The Department of Defense released a report in July 2019 that laid out the challenges the military faces with pilot retention and included plans of action from each branch. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The articles and other content which appear on the Modern War Institute website are unofficial expressions of opinion. I was just curious if the numbers are stillsimilar. We are very, very interested in seeing more applications, he added. Having been out of college for at least 5 years at the start of UPT, its more likely that Stan will have a spouse and kidsmaking the very busy year at UPT even more challenging. That 10 year obligation doesn't start until you finish flight school. Hopefully it is dependent on start date and not graduation date. There is no down time, no time to build family and relationships and the team. New aviators to incur 10-year service obligation - United States Army Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. I just signed my WOFT contract at MEPS on Thursday with the idea of a 6 year ADSO. It doesn't matter that theWOFT contract I signed this week states that it is a 6 year ADSO - the Army can do and change what it wants. Another anecdote, when I was deployed there was a desire to have experienced cockpits on higher risk/higher visibility missions usually two pilots with 1000+ total hours. Because honestly put the lifestyle sucks nowadays. Hed still have to go through steps 2-5 from the Active Duty pilot career path above! b. Of the two, retention is the variable that should be targeted. First, as we just mentioned, you only have to worry about one job flying one aircraft for Uncle Sam. Then 10 year service obligation put me right at 20 so Im not too worried about that. Do most of your fellow aviators love it? Yes, most of us eventually plan to move on to the airlines. A RAND Corporation studyfound that even $35,000 a year would not be sufficient to stem the flow of Air Force pilotsthe study concluded a bonus cap between $38,500 and $62,500 would be necessary to make a meaningful impact. Although its less common to get more than 6-12 months of your ADSC forgiven under this program, that still gets you off Active Duty sooner than expected. Although busy, it left plenty of downtime for people to have actual lives. New ADSO order goes into effect 03JUN saying: "Hey, buddy, you wanna fly? However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty UPT slot in hopes of possibly getting a Guard or Reserve slot 5 years from now. Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the. Yes, they will retain aviators when the quality of life increases for aviation, not just grinding us into the ground until a new command comes along every 12-18 months and does it all over again. You don't have to have a college degree to apply or be accepted into it, he said. This call to action comes amid challenging times, with many civilian airlines running on reduced flight schedules, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 Jon Koziol, the Armys command chief warrant officer to the aviation branch, during a Facebook livestream in June. Aviation Warrant Officers have a 10-year service commitment after completing Warrant Officer Flight School. The Palace Chase program exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. That's my 2 cents. Really sucks for all the street2seat guys coming in or anyone that has prior Aviation experience on the outside. With a 10 year ADSO and an 8 year max time in service requirementit significantly reduces the in house pool as well. If Stan becomes an engineer in the Air Force, hed probably have to attend some sort of training right after graduating from college. In recent discussions with some USAFA cadets, Ive encountered several who actually turned down pilot slots because of that 10-year ADSC. I assume if you're not in flight school by that date, your commitment is just as long as the Air Force if not a little bit longer. While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the. If you want to. Full disclosure, I was a street to seat Warrant that served for 24 years. Meanwhile students don't do touchdown autorotations and other traditional flight maneuvers. Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. The Army, by contrast, could only say that Army senior leaders recognize there are growing civilian opportunities for Army pilots. ADSO stands for Active Duty Service Obligation. NO WOFT POSTS. While I completely understand the desire of people to fly, there is more to it than that. It's almost as though he completely and totally ignored the concept of morale and esprit de corps. I would be inclined to say that your contract is still 6 year ADSO. This is anecdotal, of course, but nowadays there is no appreciable down time. Warrant Officer Candidate School is a five-week program. For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can receive the Graduate School Option. It's not about harassments, it how things get done. It is extremely frustrating to see some officers and senior NCOS make such short sighted decisions to solve complex issues without finding the cause, and not conducting any type of research. Regarding the future Army Commissioned Lts in wishing to branch aviation, that will be an issue next year. ADSO is completed. Exit surveys are important, but those only capture the opinion of those whom the Army has already lost. This global pandemic has made unprecedented impacts on the worlds economies and our way of life, Koziol said. Additional Duty Safety Officer Course brings added - United States Army I ended up discovering that Stan was most worried about frequent moves and long deployments stressing his family during an Active Duty flying career. This used to be unheard of. The Army should be able to meet their quota through CAREER Enlisted personnel ONLY if they must. It only increases your overall training costs because typically you have less time available to retain these people. Heres some humor about the topic too https://thefrontlines.com/comics/army-pilots-beware/. One can just see all those 2LTs cringing when the folks at the bottom of each class are forced to take Aviation during the branching ceremony. Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. Age should be liftedI'm in my mid fifties and still fly helicopters (civilian market) for a living. Commercial airlines offer higher salaries, more career control, and stabilization. It must continue to remove burdens that plague the warrant officer community, such as non-pilot-related duties and frequent deployments to combat training centers. In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and. In congressional testimony it was stated that at that time (2019) around 40% of the pilot population was within 3 years of being retirement eligible. Aviation Bonus Program - FY2023 Program - United States Army What are a few of the issues which the Army could resolve for aviators? Extra 4 years would NOT make a difference. If you want to fly the U-2, you must start on Active Duty. Must be a volunteer just like airborne. That's my issue (age waiver). The Army will continue to honor all GRADSO contracts for officers from YGs 2006-2013. 10 years is a good rate of return for the experience needed in being a pilot. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Stan was worried about his Active Duty career path (Option #2) because it would ensure several years of moves and deployments. Then it gets worse: Over the past 19 years, an Active Duty pilot has also been likely to spend half or more of those operational assignments deployed. June 5, 2020 in General Military Helicopter Discussions. We need better leadership courses that foster problem solving, the importance of critical thinking, and using surrounding talent to identify the cause of issues/solutions. This of course will do nothing to fix the problem of toxic leaders, poor assignment choices, or any of the other issues. (Well assume a move to the Guard or Reserve after completing your initial 10-year UPT ADSC. With this data, the Army can tailor solutions to address the issues that cause pilots to leave. Looks like I'll be doing 10 years insteaddang. The extended ADSO is intended to increase Army pilots' retention in the future. One problem with pilots is that we don't age well (I'm not a military aviator, just a private pilot) so there would be an issue of reaching a physical condition expiration date at some point. The Army must also capture the opinions of those it can still retain. im hopeful the army can fix this problem ASAP. I ended up discovering that Stan was most worried about frequent moves and long deployments stressing his family during an Active Duty flying career. , I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive. Well also see some advantages of Active Duty and some options for cutting your time there short. 9 month rotations are followed by field time, followed by gunnery, followed by EIB, followed by a CTC, etc. It further acts as a disincentive to those who would like to do the mission, but are unwilling to sacrifice a decade of their time in the event they don't like the lifestyle. Hah right. Army rescinds COVID-19 vaccination requirements, $84 million contract awarded for Excalibur replenishment, Army officer part of newly resumed cooperation for International Space Station, Chief Warrant Officer 3 Sarah Stone is just one of four, Army CIO speaks at Army Europe and Africa 2022 Cybersecurity Summit, Transcript: Media Roundtable with Mr. Douglas Bush, ASA for AL&T, July 27, 2022, Transcript: Media Roundtable with Dr. Raj Iyer, Army Chief Information Officer, and LTG John B. Morrison, Jr., Army Deputy Chief of Staff G-6 June 09, 2022, Vietnamese-American service members parallel paths to the American dream, Bengali chief warrant officer finds the American dream through serving, Soldiers inspire new Army directive on parenthood, pregnancy and postpartum policies, U.S. Army STAND-TO! Just like privates do certain tasks, junior warrant officers perform certain work as well, and I've personally seen a few folks not being able to deal with that change. Is it only for new guys coming in? If I am reading this correctly, this applies to officers that attend initial flight school after October 1st 2021. Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. Given the pandemic's direct and indirect effects on the aviation industry, is that even going to a concern going forward. In my next 6 years I flew a total of 50 hoursAnd it's not for lack of trying, I was just in assignments (that I didn't ask for and tried to get out of) where there were no aviation units around. I dont agree with this decision at all but mean forcing people to stay helps retention because you know, they are forcing you. Also, it ap-plies to the Regular Army and Reserve Component officers (Army National Guard and U.S. Army Reserve) ordered into aviation service by the Secretary of the Army and applies to all commissioned and warrant officers who are training for or have Army aeronautical ratings. This can exceed a 6 year obligation. The Armys blind spot with retention data is further highlighted by comments made by Brig. The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. This used to be unheard of. The Army can increase this to 100% with no problem whatsoever if needed. I wonder how this will effect street to seat recruitment for WOFT. This could be a few weeks TDY, or a multi-month move. Incentives proposed to better retain, progress Army pilots However, we have to look at more than just the number of years involved. The Graduate School Option (GRADSO) portion of the CSP program continues to be suspended since YG2014 pending officer corps reshaping efforts. Why should you consider doing Company . . That was the last straw for several senior pilots in my battalion and the majority of them retired after/because of that deployment when they had intended to stay in for at least a few more years. Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. self refer to ASAP, mental health, yea you can get out but you're not going to fly on the outside. It explains how to perform well in your training, I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a. is to get hired directly by a Guard or Reserve unit and let them send you to UPT. Start date has no impact on this. I want to do it for as long as I can. The first step the Army must take is to implement exit surveys for pilots to determine why they are leaving. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation, from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. Its important to note that Stans theoretical plan might have allowed him to obtain the 750 hours needed for an R-ATP about 7 years after graduating from college, but thats not competitive for getting hired at a major airline. . The 10 year ADSO was based on whether or not you pinned WO1/2LT by a certain date, not by when you started or graduated IERW. Army Career Satisfaction Program I bet less than 400 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. They require more time for people to gain experience. Can't be branched aviation. United States, and the U.S. Army Re-serve, unless otherwise stated. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. You can post now and register later. amp, USMA graduates accepting an appointment in the Regular Army incur a 5-year ADSO (10 USC 4348). My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! Once Stan finally gets qualified in his aircraft, hed get seasoning orders with his Guard or Reserve unit. Army Aviation: Alternatives to the 10-year Service Obligation People are tired. I'd sign a 15 year ADSO if they gave me an age waiver (I'm only 35 not 65!). Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. Do that and fix quality of life issues.